Sue Wadden (00:59): I'm really excited. This is like an all-star cast, everybody. So, um, I want you to- I wanna get you, the guys, to get to know, um, our panel today. So we're gonna start with just quick intros. Tell us who you are, where you're located, um, just kind of a brief description of your design approach and philosophy and kind of maybe one more thing, like what are you super excited about, um, right now that you're working on? So, Raymond, let's start with you.  

Rayman Boozer (01:24): Of course you're gonna start with me.  All (01:26): (laughter)  

Benjamin Johnston (01:28): Nobody wants to, [inaudible 00:01:29].  

Rayman Boozer (01:30): I'm Raymond- I'm Raymond Boozer and I'm the principal designer of Apartment 48 Interiors. I've had an interior design company for 30 years now, and we focus mostly on residential and commercial design. Our style is kind of a Bohemian, but modern, like, take on, like, interiors, but I also like traditional. You know, I'm not locked into one aesthetic. I- um, I've been doing this for a long time, so I've sort of come to be known as, like, a color expert in the field, you know, but that's only from the experience of making a lot of mistakes with color.  

Sue Wadden (02:09): (laughs) Oh, well, we're gonna talk about that. That's awesome. Um, and how about one thing you're excited that you're working on now?  

Rayman Boozer (02:17): I'm really excited. I'm doing some really cool things. We're doing a- a townhouse on 89th Street that's like six floors. It's amazing. I convinced him to take out a bathroom, put in a second kitchen upstairs for like the roof deck and then the garden. It's- it just goes on and on and on. So this project has already been two years, and we're still, like, killing it.  

Sue Wadden (02:40): Amazing. Um, all right, well then we'll kick it over to Marie. How about you? You wanna go next?  

Marie Flanigan (02:45): Sure, yeah. I'm Marie Flanigan. I'm based in Houston, Texas, and I lead a full-service interior design firm that works on projects across the country. Um, we really focus on timeless refined interiors, um, that really has an approach that blends architecture with interiors, um, and telling the personal story of everybody we work with. Um, some exciting things that I'm working on are, we've got another collection with Visual Comfort launching at High Point in October, and we just released our second book, The Perfect Room, with Rizzoli.  

Sue Wadden (03:23): That's exciting. Awesome. All right. We'll talk about that, um, in a second. And Visual Comfort, I love them. They're- they're great folks. Um, and then Ben, let's wrap up with you.  

Benjamin Johnston (03:32): Hi, everybody. I am Ben Johnston. I am the creative partner of an award-winning architecture and interiors company based here in Texas, um, but working all over the globe. And, um, I guess I'm known mostly for what we call our classic curated and cool environments, uh, which I'm also happy to talk a little bit more about. And as we move along. Uh, and I'm most excited about the fuc- of the fact that I have a book also coming out with Rizzoli, uh, in February of 2026, uh, entitled Refined Interiors: Timeless Homes for Modern Living. And that's already, uh, available for pre-order on Amazon.  

Sue Wadden (04:10): Amazing. So I feel like that's gonna be a nice segue into what we're here to talk about today, which this is the Color of the Year episode, which we're really excited about. So you guys have all had a sneak peek of the color, you know, what was your first impression? Do you love it? Are you skeptical? Did it surprise you, or did it feel like, "Okay, well, it's about time."? Um, so here, Ben, we'll start with you this time.  

Benjamin Johnston (04:30): Let's see. Well, my first impressions, um, khaki, you know, by design is kind of meant to blend into its surroundings, (laughs) um, and not to make a statement, which perhaps was a statement within itself. Um, you know, khaki's, cousins, beige and taupe have been very popular for the last decade, so I think it was a about time that, uh, khaki joined the party. Um, you know, but as a designer who really appreciates the bold use of color, I was, uh, a little skeptical, admittedly. Um, I was hoping for something that I thought was, uh, a bigger statement, uh, and something a bit more inspirational.  

Sue Wadden (05:07): Love it. Fair. We will answer. (laughs) Okay. How about you, Marie?  

Marie Flanigan (05:12): I was into it. I feel like khaki, you know, Ben touched down it being such a beautiful neutral, but it can have so much depth, and it can really carry the weight of more bolder colors. So sometimes, I think you need a lot of quiet and, you know, foundational elements to a room to pull off some of the bolder statements. I think it feels connected to nature, which is very much a part of my work and what I try to do, um, and I think it's really grounding. And yeah, I think it can have several personalities depending on how you use it. So I was into it.  

Rayman Boozer (05:50): I think the first thing I thought when I saw the color, I thought Ralph Lauren, because to me, this reminds me of Ralph Lauren so much. And I think that khaki is one of those colors that, as Marie said, is kind of a base, it's like a background color where you layer things. And Ralph Lauren is so good at like, putting things with khaki, like bright colors with khaki, or greens with khaki, or like earth tones. You know, like it's whole, like, aesthetic is about, like, mixing something neutral with something, like, surprising and or expected. And it fits my aesthetic too, because I like to mix things that don't necessarily belong together, but then once people get used to seeing it, it feels like, "Oh yeah, that's a thing now."  (06:29): I mean, if you- I mean, everybody knows what you mean when you say Ralph Lauren. So I thought this is a great color to use as a backdrop for other stuff. You know, I like bright colors too, like Ben, so I would use it as a background color, and then layer in furniture. Maybe Navy is a great color to go with this, you know, any other kind of bright colors like red, orange, green, you know. I'm just gonna name colors now.  

Sue Wadden (06:54): (laughs)  

Benjamin Johnston (06:55): (laughs).  

Rayman Boozer (06:55): But- but I can see how somebody- (laughs) I can see how a minimalist would use it as a neutral, and then maybe put with whites, you know, and other shades of taupe, you know, like tone on tone. I think the biggest trend right now is color drenching. And, like, a color like this is perfect for that because you can do the molding, the trim, the ceiling, you know, it's not too dark, and then you have like a base for whatever you wanna do.  

Sue Wadden (07:21): Yeah, that's for sure. So you guys hit on all the high notes of why we picked this color. Um, I think it was the right year for a quiet collection. So Marie, to your point, um, khakis can kind of live however they want to, they're very versatile. But we haven't really talked about khaki in a long, long, long time, maybe since the nineties. Like I was of- that was like, kind of was when I was coming through design school. And khakis were really important because there was a lot of green, as there is now. So coming out of COVID, this whole decade has been green has just been everywhere. And I just think that that was a natural progression of where neutrals were going. We all understand white, right? What that power that that's been, um, and then beige certainly, like that's been rising and warming up of color.  (08:03): So for us, khaki was, like, for our audience to kind of symbolize like, "This is a shift," right? We're seeing just a little, um, more of that natural neutral take hold. So, um, you guys are, you know, perfect in what you brought, um, to talk about. But one of the macro trends that we sort of discussed at length, right, when we're coming up with our, our choice is the idea of the name.  (08:25): So Universal Khaki, it's truly a well-behaved khaki. It doesn't go too green, it doesn't get too muddy. Um, it's not too blue, it's not too taupe. And so we loved that about the actual color, but I'd like for you guys to talk about the idea of, um, what are concepts that are truly universal in design for you, for each of your aesthetics, um, so that's- this- we're gonna start with Marie on this one. Um, you know, doesn't- don't overthink it, just, like, what, for you, is a universal design concept?  

Marie Flanigan (08:52): Yeah, I think what- when I think about universal design in my own work, it's about, you know, finding the desire to mix beauty and comfort, and how they can coexist, um, and how creating spaces that feel like home, and finding ways of using different design elements that feel timeless and true to the people living there.  

Sue Wadden (09:15): All right. Raymond, how about you?  

Rayman Boozer (09:17): I think for me, I think happiness is universal, and I think that the reason why people paint their rooms in the first place is because they think they- they're gonna be happier with a different color. And I think the way I approach design is like, "What's gonna make my client happy?"  (09:33): So happiness is a really important thing to everybody and to universal desire. It's why we buy things. It's why we go to school, get an education. We think anything we do, we're building on something that's gonna make us happier in the end. I think it's the universal goal, like, of everybody everywhere around the world. And I do think, like, when I'm thinking about decorating, I'm thinking like, "What's the best choice or what's the fun choice?" I mean, Marie just mentioned something like timeless, and I do timeless interiors. We're working on something with Gramercy now that's very timeless, like black and white, you know, and beige.  (10:10): But I do think that colors make people happy, at least for the moment. And I think when somebody wants to paint their bedroom or paint a nursery, they just want it to bring some joy to their lives.  

Sue Wadden (10:22): It can also cause massive frustration too for people. That's why they need designers, because picking the wrong color is like, I hear about it all the time. So that's why- that's why everybody needs designers,  

Rayman Boozer (10:32): Right. But you know what I say, you make a mistake, you paint over it.  

Sue Wadden (10:36): Totally agree. Yes. All right, Ben, how about you?  

Benjamin Johnston (10:39): Oh. Oh, Lord. Uh, for me, probably the thing that I think about is universal, um, kind of comes back to my training as an- as an architect. And fun fact, a lot of people don't know, but Marie and I went to college together, um, both for architecture school. Um, and, you know, one of the things they of course really drill into your- into your core values is this notion of functionality. Uh, Louis Sullivan, who is, uh, Frank Lloyd Wright's kind of mentor was the- was the man who kind of coined the phrase, "Form follows function."  (11:10): So for me, as I- as I work through design, my design process, the thing I think is truly universal is when you can connect, um, the choices that you're making to the function that they're performing. Um, and sometimes, that function can be, um, very kind of, um, about acts of daily living, but it could also be about how you're trying to create, um, a mood or to influence how you feel in a space. And so, when you're designing with functionality and intention in mind, I think some pretty amazing things happen, and it allows us, as designers, to really, uh, you know, satisfy the psychological needs of- of comfort, uh, connection, memory, and even self-expression.  

Sue Wadden (11:53): We talked endlessly about the idea. There's a couple words that I really love related to this color, structure, function, essentialism. So it was- um, we discussed at length how a color like this can just kind of, obviously, be versatile in lots of different spaces. But no matter whether it was minimalism is your thing, maximalism is your thing, whether you have a- a ton of keepsakes or you just want bare basics, a color like this is essentialism at its finest. Um, and so, I think you guys have all touched on things that define what's essential in your designs. Um, do you think that it's additive, is essentialism additive in your design process? Or is it more about curation? Just curious. Raymond, let's start with you.  

Rayman Boozer (12:36): I think, for me, it's more about curating things. I think anything that's important to a client of mine is gonna be essential to them. And a lot of times, it's hard to let- get people to let go of things. So one of my biggest goals in every interior is to get all the clutter into one place. So I always do some kind of mill work, usually it's painted a bright color, and put everything on one side of the room so that the rest of the room can breathe. But I think it's important to let people have their stuff. I think it really is important ... I'm definitely a maximalist, but I like to control the environment. You know, I- I don't want chaos.  

Benjamin Johnston (13:13): For me, I- I- I kind of go back to, you know, people like Angelo Donghia, who- who really talked about a lot in his work about, you know, if you add one more thing, it feels overdone, and if you take one thing away, it feels underdone. You're- you're- you're kind of threading this very car- careful balance about what is essential. So I- I agree with Raymond. It's- it's very much, for me, about the curation of- of, uh, the elements in a room and how they're deployed. So, I mean, I think it's really, for me, all about finding that balance.  

Marie Flanigan (13:47): Yeah, I mean, I would agree with what they're saying. And I feel like it's foundational principles to design, because I would never call myself a maximalist, but I agree with the kind of foundational ideas of, it's less about stripping things away as it is about choosing items with care, and asking all of ourselves, "What truly matters in this room? What are we trying to do? What is the function? What is the heart of the room? Uh, how does it tell the story of the family living there, of this home, of their life? Um, how do we layer in the texture and the detail to create the richness?" And whether that's with color or with, you know, layering of different textures or materials. Um, for me it's less about quantity and more about intention.  

Sue Wadden (14:37): It's, like, just popped in my brain as we're talking about this. (laughs) is there- do you have any funny stories, like examples of work with either yourself or with a client? Like, I think of when Harry Met Sally and the wagon wheel coffee table. Like, has there ever a thing that somebody (laughs) really wanted that you were like, "I- I c- I can't." you don't- you don't have to mention if you don't want to. (laughs) I don't want you getting in trouble, but I feel like people would appreciate a little of the insider insight for (laughs) what designers go through. Anything you can think of? I'm trying to think if there's something for me.  

Rayman Boozer (15:10): I can tell you that I've had a few clients who won't let go of things. I had a client that I worked with years ago, and she had this sofa in her living room that she didn't wanna let go of. I convinced her that we'd buy two new sofas, get them reupholstered. Got them delivered, and I would say, this is like 15 years ago, to this day, she still has that third sofa sitting in the living room. She was- will not get rid of it. And then, like, one of my clients is a friend of hers, and she- we just did a custom sofa crabbit for her. And she called me up, and she said, "I just saw Mary, and she told me I shouldn't let go of my old sofa." And I was like, "You know, Mary still has that sofa from 15 years ago (laughs)" sitting in her apartment.  

Sue Wadden (15:53): (laughs).  

Marie Flanigan (15:53): (laughs).  

Rayman Boozer (15:55): It's, like, insane, you know. Like, people have attachments to certain things, you know?  

Sue Wadden (16:01): Right. And I don't know if that's value or heirloom. It could be a million things, but it cracks me up.  

Rayman Boozer (16:04): It was not an heirloom, It was not an heirloom.  

Sue Wadden (16:06): (laughs)  

Rayman Boozer (16:07): It was irrational.  

Sue Wadden (16:08): It was just an attachment, you know, like crazy artwork, right?  

Rayman Boozer (16:13): Yeah.  

Sue Wadden (16:14): You know, people, you know, at one point in their life, they spent, you know, really good money on a piece. And now, maybe, it doesn't fit with the design aesthetic. That has to be an intense challenge on how to design (laughs) a room and make it work.  

Rayman Boozer (16:25): Yeah. Artwork's really hard.  

Sue Wadden (16:25): Yeah.  

Rayman Boozer (16:27): It is hard.  

Sue Wadden (16:28): And ag- again, like then you're, like, commentary on- on a person's, you know, art taste. It's very personal. I would not wanna get involved in that conversation. No way. Um, Ben, Marie, anything else? You have a- do you have any funny stories?  

Marie Flanigan (16:41): I don't know if I have a funny story, but I do- well I- I tend to have clients with a ton of collections, and they just, like, have all these collections everywhere. And sometimes, it's about controlling the chaos. I often like to try to group the collections instead of displaying them all over as, group them, and ... Or like put them, if they're not the most slightly items, then I'll find a beautiful, like, antique hutch, and lacquer the inside and, you know, put them in ways that they're not hurting the overall aesthetic, but people get to keep the items that they love.  

Sue Wadden (17:13): That's very good advice. Good advice for me too. I have a- I have some collections, and I need to strip them back, so that's good advice. Ben, how about you? Anything funny?  

Benjamin Johnston (17:21): I- I think probably the most- one of the more bizarre requests that we had was we have a c- a client who has a very large collection of bongs. Um-  

Sue Wadden (17:30): (laughs)  

Marie Flanigan (17:30): (laughs)  

Benjamin Johnston (17:30): And- (laughs) and it was really about kind of trying to find tasteful ways in which to display all the bongs, um, that I think was, um, one of the more unusual things that I've been requested to- to kind of tackle. But you know what? Ultimate- they- you know, this particular client uses every last one of them, so, um, it was also about, in a way, thinking about 'em in a very functional way as well. So, um, it- it was- uh, it- it's one of those stories that I- still makes me laugh to the- to this day.  

Sue Wadden (18:02): Ben, that is gold star story. I love it. Absolutely love it. So let's tell everybody a little bit about what your home is. Um, I'm just curious, you know, we obviously do, um, and- and promote a bunch of our work for our clients, but what's your personal style like? You know, Marie, um, what's something that's essential in your home?  

Marie Flanigan (18:19): It's an interesting question for me right now because I am in the middle of working on a renovat- a personal renovation where I am moving from a home that I've- we built a few years back. And I'm asking myself that exact question. And, you know, I think the essential things that I'm always looking for ... I like to collect pieces that I love over a lifetime. And I've collected some beautiful antiques that I always take with me. Some of them remind me of past projects. Some of them remind me of, you know, t- travels with my husband. And those are the elements that find their way from house to house, from room to room. And, you know, sometimes just being a designer, we- we see new things all the time. We get, um, excited about new ideas, and, uh, you know, sometimes even just moving those items around your house makes them new again.  

Sue Wadden (19:13): That's very good advice. Um, how about you, Ben?  

Benjamin Johnston (19:16): For me, I- the thing I just never want part with is- is my art. Um, I think it's the most essential thing for me of when I- you know, if I was to go from house to house, I- I wanna bring my art with me. Uh, if there's a fire, I- there's a few pieces in my home that I know I'm going to run to go try to save. Um, but, you know, I would say, um, those are probably what I find to be essential, and I just think they- they, again, uh, provide so much joy to me. And I think that's the thing. Whatever- wherever you find your joy, that's the- that's the thing that is the essential part.  

Sue Wadden (19:50): Beautiful. Raymond, how about you?  

Rayman Boozer (19:52): I'd say that my style, which is a question you've asked first, is more like world traveler. I- I've traveled a lot, so a lot of the things in my apartment are things that I've got when I traveled. So they all kind of mean something to me because it remind me of that place. But the most important things I think I have are photography. I have a lot of photography, you know, I sort of collect things by Luke Smalley. I think I have like four or five pieces from Luke Smalley. I have, like, Jack Pearson, you know, I have an Arthur King photograph that's like my favorite, favorite thing, is this little boy dancing on a roof, it's from 1944, and it's a little boy dancing, but he doesn't know his pictures being taken from far away, and it's like the greatest little photo. And it's- it's my favorite thing. But all the- all of the photography is the most important thing I think to me, you know? Otherwise, furniture, like, I love the stuff I have, but I don't- I'm not attached emotionally to any of my furniture.  

Sue Wadden (20:50): Yeah, I think that's ... Well, I guess, you know, everyone has their own description of what's essential. I'm trying to think what mine would be. Maybe- maybe it would be our- our- my husband's a- an amateur photographer, but he- he does beautiful work. So that's- that's what I would run and grab out of the house, right, if there was a fire. Um, and so for- for us, that's what's essential. Car- you know, I could change out my sofas every two weeks. Like I, I don't have attachment to furniture. I don't have the budget to do that, obviously-  

Benjamin Johnston (21:15): (laughs).  

Sue Wadden (21:16): ... but it would be nice.  (21:17): Um, so I wanna take it back to khaki, because of course that's, we're here to talk about. Um, so for you, um, for each of you, um, what would khaki resonate right now in design? Is it comfort, simplicity or is it something else? So Raymond, let's start with you.  

Rayman Boozer (21:32): I think it's simplicity. I think one thing I didn't reference is, like, it's very military color, and I think that a uniform is a really simple thing. It's so funny because I have a jumpsuit that's like the same color as this color that (laughs) you've chosen for the color of the year. And I think that kind of uniform idea of simplifying, like, what you're gonna wear, I keep going back to fashion, and I know I keep making references to like Ralph Lauren and the Gap. I- I feel like that's what I see as this khaki, it's like a base for other things to be layered on.  

Sue Wadden (22:06): I don't reference fashion often in, like, my macro themes, but I am with this color, obviously, because the- the very obvious connection. Um, but I- maybe it's just the time, maybe it's like I need this, like, uh, like, palette cleanser from where, you know, it's kind of midway through this decade, where we've been since COVID, and maybe thinking forward to where we're going. Um, so that's my- that's my hat take, but enough about me. Ben, what do you think?  

Benjamin Johnston (22:30): I mean the same as- as both of you. I mean, if you- you talked about how it had a moment in the nineties, and I- I think of, unfortunately, the Persian Gulf War and- and you know, for- for me, it has, uh, from fashion, um, both military implications, but also school uniforms, um, which I also grew up wearing. Um, but the- the thing for me is that, on a more pleasant note, I always think about, again, this connection to nature. And I think that's what khak- really khaki means to me, uh, and what I like it to mean to me. Um, and you know, for me, I think about, I went on a- an incredible photo safari in South Africa a few years ago, and, uh, just all, you know, being there dressed in khaki, um, trying to blend in, but also seeing all these gorgeous creatures, um, in their natural habitats. I mean, for me, that's where my- where my heart leads me when I- when I think of this color.  

Sue Wadden (23:24): I love that. Marie, how about you?  

Marie Flanigan (23:25): You know, I really see it as a response to all of the moody tones and the gem tones being used in design today, the greens, the deep burgundies, rust tones. It's the neutral that it- has enough weight to be paired with those stronger colors.  (23:43): Um, I'm- even right now, I'm designing a room that has really deep wood walnut paneling, and we wanted to brighten up the cabinets, but you can't pair such heavy colors with just a bright white. It has like a starkness, and it just doesn't work. So I feel like khaki is the response for something weighted to receive some of these deeper colors.  (24:05): And, you know, just personally, I- it reminds me, my husband and I just had our 20th wedding anniversary, and thank you. We- and we just took a trip to France to celebrate, and, um, you know, we were in Provence, and basically these towns are colored the color tones of the earth that they literally built the towns with. And we were in this small town outside of Gordes and, like, there's gold, terracottas, yellows, browns, obviously khakis, literally because all of these buildings were formed from the earth. And I think that that i- is just a beautiful reminder to me that it is so nuanced and centered in nature and beautiful.  

Sue Wadden (24:49): Yeah, we're gonna talk in a second about, like, coordinating colors, but I- I totally agree. So I am all about browns these days. Um, for me, it's just like, again, I- maybe it's throwing me back to the nineties, and I need that right now. But, um, that nature connection is very, very strong, and will, um, kind of have new life when paired with khaki. So again, not about me, I wanna get your input on this. Um, so Marie, I think you've answered, you know, how you would use khaki in a space, um, but Ben, how would you use it? Would you use it maybe as a focal point or an accent, or, like, how can you see using a khaki?  

Benjamin Johnston (25:23): I think it makes a b- great background color, but I also, uh, you know, to layer other, other colors on, and Raymond talked about this earlier, i- I find it to be a really interesting color to, um, layer kind of, its complete opposite. So for me, uh, I think about like Periwinkle Blue, something that's so clear and almost like a pastel color I think really sings when it's juxtaposed to such a color that is so nuanced and so, um, you know, muted. Um, and I think that they kind of sing together. I think there's an electricity that happens when you put those colors together.  (25:57): Um, even things like- uh, kind of like a- an Electric Purple or- um, or a chartreuse color that really just a- again, pops. I think that's really exciting to me. So I think I would be tempted to go in that direction. And I also think I love, um, graphic patterns. So I love, um, you know, something that would incorporate some, some black into the mix, and would do something with the khaki that felt very, um, eye catching, so that it, it kind of, in a way, you know, it takes it from being a background color and- and brings it into the foreground. It brings it into the thing that your eye sees.  

Sue Wadden (26:34): Love it. Can't add anything more to that. I absolutely agree. Um, Raymond, how about you?  

Rayman Boozer (26:40): Ben just took all of my colors.  

Sue Wadden (26:43): I know, it was good.  

Rayman Boozer (26:45): (laughs) the only thing I would add is maybe- I like the idea of navy and ta- and khaki together, and I think that, like he mentioned black, but I think you could do the same thing with navy, where you have a color that has some richness to it, and you can have that khaki be the neutral and the navy be, like, the bold statement.  

Sue Wadden (27:04): Agreed. I love it. Again, rich tones.  

Rayman Boozer (27:07): That's back your school uniform.  

Sue Wadden (27:08): Yes. And reds. You know, it's not always easy to pair a deep red, a deep jewel tone, a burgundy with a-  

Rayman Boozer (27:15): Yeah.  

Sue Wadden (27:15): ... neutral, like that's kind of wimpy. It feels like it can't stand up. Um, but I think khakis do a good job of like standing on their own-  

Rayman Boozer (27:22): I agree.  

Sue Wadden (27:23): ... um, when paired with reds too, I keep looking at the lampshades in your, um, in your background there.  

Rayman Boozer (27:28): Oh yeah, they're Pooky lampshades.  

Sue Wadden (27:30): They're so cute. I love those. Um, all right, so critics will say, you know, "How is a neutral a color? It's so safe, it can be even boring." Um, you know, how could you argue against that from your- your design training? What do we know, as designers, about neutrals?  

Marie Flanigan (27:47): I mean, I think a lot of people ... Neutrals can get a bad rep for being boring, but I think that they have so much potential to anchor a space, to create depth, depending on ... You know, everybody just talked about all the colors they love to pair with them. You know, the color theory behind some of these neutrals, they can really take on totally different personalities depending on what they're paired with. I actually like to pair khaki with blush tones and brighter whites for a softer palette. And then in that palette, khaki then becomes the central player. It doesn't just have to be a background player. And I think, um, the undertones that you give it can shift depending on what light it's in. You know, pairing it with natural light versus, um, incandescent, LED, I think that can totally change its personality. But, um, I think it could be really rich and even, um, bring so much depth into any room.  

Benjamin Johnston (28:50): I wanna add to that because I think there's something really interesting about, you know, khaki. I often think of very rough, raw textures, but then I love to see a color like that elevated into the use of like, mohair, something that's super decadent, super lux. And I think that that can also recontextualize the color, um, because all of a sudden, instead of it feeling to, maybe, what was- what was your word, Marie, wimpy? Um, I think it can become something that's really decadent. So I think there's- there's some fun that you can have with- with playing with texture in that color.  

Rayman Boozer (29:26): Yeah, I- I think that Marie made a really good point. I think that neutrals can be a color. I- like, I'm known for bright colors, and, like, you know, rainbow, but I've done like projects where everything is white. So you could take one color, and, like, layer it in different tones, and make a more interesting story than you can with, like, just pushing all bright things that clash together, you know? And I think it- you just have to have the right client for it. And I had the right client for it, and we did a beautiful white loft, where things are white, but different shades of white, and the furniture's white. But it's not a boring room at all because there's different textures. And then khaki's a great color to mix in with that because it's just tonal, you know? It's not, like, grabbing all the attention.  

Sue Wadden (30:12): It- exactly it. It lets everything else in the room kind of shine. Um, which maybe- maybe it's the time for that. In design, as you guys have mentioned, you know, we've been into the jewel tone thing and the rich depth of color. And maybe it's just time to, like, take a- take a beat, um, and see a color that kind of goes with everything else. And lets that, like, natural element come to the forefront.  

Rayman Boozer (30:33): I think it's time for everything. One thing I've noticed about, at least, I live in New York, everything seems to be in now, you know? Like seventies are in and the nineties are in, and, like, art deco's making this huge comeback in design. It's just- it's like everything. It was like mid-century modern for like ever. And now, like, everybody's talking about art deco, like, everywhere I go.  

Sue Wadden (30:57): It's fascinating. I was just, um, talking to a colleague that works in the furniture side of our business, and we were talking about, uh, wood-stained kitchen cabinets. And that has not been a thing in a long, long, long time, but they're seeing an increase, um, like 30% increase in people looking for stained cabinets, like high-end, luxurious cabinets. So it's just kind of a pendulum shift. I think that like color's, like, having a- a moment, right? People are not- not feeling that they have to make this, like, austere environment that has to live forever. Um, they're personalizing it maybe. So it could be a little of that as well. Um, it's a nice- it's exciting to see it looks new and fresh, um, so I'm- I'm here for it.  (31:38): All right, well we're gonna do one more segment, and I've never done this before. We're gonna do a rapid fire round. So I'm gonna- I'm gonna bring up a design element, and you're gonna say either essential or excess. It's gonna be fun, I think. We'll- it'll be fun.  

Rayman Boozer (31:50): Okay. We'll make it fun.  

Sue Wadden (31:52): We'll make it fun. All right. First one. Um, and we'll start- we'll go Marie, Ben, Ray. Okay, how's that? All right. Accent walls. Essential or access?  

Marie Flanigan (32:02): Excess.  

Benjamin Johnston (32:03): It depends on it. If it's an architectural accent wall, I'm gonna say essential.  

Rayman Boozer (32:07): I hate accent walls. I don't get it. It's like, just do the whole room or don't do it. God.  

Marie Flanigan (32:13): All right. All right. Uh, that's perfect.  

Benjamin Johnston (32:16): I don't like a painted accent wall just for the record. Or a wall of wall covering, I do not like that.  

Sue Wadden (32:21): Yes, people love it. So talk to them about that, and why they shouldn't do it, right? We could. That could be another topic for another podcast. All right, second one, throw pillows. Marie, go.  

Marie Flanigan (32:32): Essential.  

Benjamin Johnston (32:34): Essential.  

Rayman Boozer (32:35): Essential. For sure. You should see my apartment. I have so many pillows.  

Sue Wadden (32:40): All right. Open shelving, essential or excess?  

Marie Flanigan (32:43): I would say- I'm gonna go ahead and categorize it as essential. Just not too many. (laughs) Not too many.  

Benjamin Johnston (32:48): I'm gonna say essential.  

Rayman Boozer (32:50): I'd say essential if you have a purpose for it.  

Sue Wadden (32:53): Yes. Just not arbitrary. Okay. Good. All right. Wallpaper. Essential or excess?  

Marie Flanigan (32:59): Essential.  

Benjamin Johnston (33:00): Essential.  

Rayman Boozer (33:01): Essential. Yeah. That's how we make money.  

Sue Wadden (33:04): Yeah. I love it. Well, also important. That is also essential. (laughs) All right. Matching furniture sets, essential or excess?  

Marie Flanigan (33:14): Excess indoors. Essential outdoors.  

Benjamin Johnston (33:17): I could not have said that better.  

Sue Wadden (33:19): I know. Marie, you nailed that. That was so good.  

Rayman Boozer (33:22): I agree with Marie. I think that ... I don't like matching inside, i- it feels like you just went to one place and got everything. But, like, outside it just gives you that groundedness and that, like, cohesiveness that you need. So yeah, essential outside.  

Benjamin Johnston (33:38): Can I tell y'all, I've actually felt mildly guilty every time I do, like, matched sets outside, and then I'm like, "Am I creating- like, am I copping out?" Like I- I feel guilty about it, but then you guys have just made me feel so much better. So thank you.  

Sue Wadden (33:55): I agree. And I'm gonna play this for my husband, because every time I buy a set outside, he gets mad at me, like, "You don't know what you're doing." I'm like, "Listen, I do."  

Benjamin Johnston (34:02): You could reference all all of us. (laughs)  

Sue Wadden (34:04): Exactly. Exactly. So thank you, everybody.  

Rayman Boozer (34:06): You know why that is? Is because outside, you don't have the context of walls to like, say, "This stuff goes together." So it needs to match.  

Sue Wadden (34:15): Yeah. You need the structure of the shape. You guys are amazing. Thank you. Um, alright, well, last one. Bold Art in neutral rooms, essential or excess?  

Marie Flanigan (34:25): Essential.  

Benjamin Johnston (34:26): I mean, look at me.  

Sue Wadden (34:27): I know. (laughs)  

Marie Flanigan (34:27): (laughs)  

Benjamin Johnston (34:27): Essential.  

Rayman Boozer (34:27): Essential. (laughs)  

Sue Wadden (34:34): That's fantastic. Well, you guys, you have been so generous with your time and I really appreciate all of it. So I just have one more closing question for you guys. Um, we love Universal Khaki, but what is your personal color of the year for the upcoming year? What's more- most essential for your family, for your life, um, for what you're trying to achieve? It could be clothing, it could be in your interiors. It could be a favorite vacation spot, um, tell me. Um, and Raymond, let's start with you.  

Rayman Boozer (35:01): I like pink. I- I think that pink, I'm not sick of it. I know it was really popular five years ago, but I love using pale, pale pinks in- instead of white in interiors. And I like using it, like, not just for like little girls' rooms, but for other occasions too. I think that pink has a lot of butt up legs still too, like ... I think it's become a neutral. I think that's how I want to say it. It's become a neutral.  

Sue Wadden (35:28): I agree. I agree. Okay, how about you Ben?  

Benjamin Johnston (35:30): Gosh, I think for me, I think the color that I just think is my color of the year is that oxblood color. It's been so prevalent in fashion and um, I'm seeing a resurgence of that in- in the home furnishings market as well. Um, I think that people are drawn to its lushness, its sexiness, uh, the mood. It gives us space. I think in terms of the Sherwin-Williams color, I think, um, the one that I'm thinking of is 7595, uh, Sommelier as the closest to the version of Oxblood that I'm drawn to.  

Sue Wadden (36:05): I love that too. And it's also nineties, like the nineties, right? That blood was- that color was very important in the nineties. It's right long with Sommelier.  

Benjamin Johnston (36:09): Right along with Becky.  

Sue Wadden (36:13): Yeah, it was beautiful. Okay. Marie, how about you?  

Marie Flanigan (36:15): If I'm pulling from a Sherwin-Williams color, one of my favorites right now is Aurora Brown. It actually is kind of along the same lines as Ben's oxblood, but it's a little bit more earthen and a little bit more, you know, just subtle. I've got it in my personal home, and love it. And, you know, I'm using a lot of greens right now. And then my biggest surprise for 2025 is being more open-minded to working with yellow. And I feel like it has made a comeback, and I'm seeing it on our design boards more and more. So I feel like-  

Benjamin Johnston (36:48): My second one would've been Banana Cream. Like Banana Cream, I'm all about right now.  

Sue Wadden (36:53): Yeah. That's very beautiful. We- we talked a lot about yellow as being our color of the air, um, but we wanted to tell this story more, so I love it. You guys, you have been fantastic guests. I so appreciate your time. How can people find you, Marie, how can people find you?  

Marie Flanigan (37:07): Find me on my website, marieflaniganinteriors.com. You can also find us on Instagram @marieflaniganinteriors.  

Sue Wadden (37:14): Awesome. Ben, how about you?  

Benjamin Johnston (37:15): On Instagram @benjaminjohnstondesign, and, um, on the web at, um, benjamin-johnston.com.  

Sue Wadden (37:25): Awesome. And Raymond.  

Rayman Boozer (37:26): Cool. Um, you can find me on Instagram, @apartment48.  

Sue Wadden (37:30): Awesome. You guys, thank you so much for your time.  (37:37): As always. We'd like to take a moment to congratulate our September Designer of the Month, Brittany Button of Button Atelier, based in Los Angeles. We had the pleasure of featuring this designer's Mesa Bungalows project earlier this year in STIR, our monthly e-newsletter for design professionals. And we hope you'll help us congratulate her on social media @swdesignpros.  (37:58): Thanks so much for listening. Don't forget to subscribe, leave us a review, and tell other design and color lovers about our show. See you next time on Colormixology.